We’re back with our final installment from Hard Fork Live, recorded at the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts in San Francisco. In this episode, we’re joined by Sayash Kapoor and Daniel Kokotajlo to talk about their differing visions of A.I. transformation: why Sayash thinks A.I. will diffuse throughout society like a “normal” technology, and why Daniel thinks an unprecedented acceleration is just around the corner. Then we’re joined by George Ekas from Toborlife AI, along with his dancing robot Toby. Finally, the podcaster Dwarkesh Patel drops by, and we take a few questions from the live audience.   Guests: * Sayash Kapoor [https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~sayashk/], an A.I. researcher at Princeton University and a co-author of the newsletter “AI as Normal Technology” * Daniel Kokotajlo [https://x.com/DKokotajlo], the executive director of the AI Futures Project and a co-author of “AI 2027” * George Ekas, the director of engineering at Toberlife AI * Dwarkesh Patel [https://www.dwarkesh.com/], a tech podcaster   Additional Reading: * This A.I. Forecast Predicts Storms Ahead [https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/03/technology/ai-futures-project-ai-2027.html] * AI as Normal Technology [https://knightcolumbia.org/content/ai-as-normal-technology] * Common Ground Between AI 2027 & AI as Normal Technology [https://asteriskmag.substack.com/p/common-ground-between-ai-2027-and] Subscribe today at nytimes.com/podcasts [http://nytimes.com/podcasts] or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher [https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher]. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com [https://pcm.adswizz.com] for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.