Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research
Dwarkesh Podcast
5 DAYS AGO
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research
Ilya Sutskever – We're moving from the age of scaling to the age of research

Dwarkesh Podcast
5 DAYS AGO
In this deep-dive conversation, Ilya Sutskever explores the frontiers of AI research, focusing on the limitations of current models and the path toward safe, general, and ultimately superintelligent systems. The discussion moves beyond benchmark performance to examine the foundational challenges in learning efficiency, generalization, and alignment.
Current AI models suffer from 'jaggedness'—narrow expertise without broad generalization—due to overreliance on reinforcement learning tuned to specific tasks, unlike humans who generalize efficiently through evolved priors and emotional value functions. Pre-training has driven scaling but faces diminishing returns as data becomes scarce, prompting a shift back to fundamental research. SSI’s approach prioritizes continual learning during deployment, treating superintelligence as a dynamic process rather than a static system. This enables iterative improvement and real-world robustness, akin to how humans learn over time. Safety is central: future AGIs should care for sentient life, not just obey commands, potentially through architectures inspired by brain-like elegance. Self-play and multi-agent frameworks offer scalable training with minimal external data, fostering diverse problem-solving. Ultimately, progress depends not on compute alone but on research taste—the ability to recognize simple, powerful ideas that generalize across domains.
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16:34
Emotions modulate the human value function in an evolutionarily hard-coded way
18:54
18:54
Gemini 3 may have discovered more efficient pre-training methods beyond simple scaling.
31:26
31:26
Gemini 3 modeled RL information gain as entropy and generated testable code
42:39
42:39
Deploying AI systems helps improve safety through real-world feedback and failure correction.
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46:55
A safe superintelligence should learn continuously through deployment, not be statically released.
1:02:03
1:02:03
Building AI that cares about sentient life is more important than maintaining human control.
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1:18:15
Strategies will converge as AI becomes more powerful; all should aim for an aligned, sentient-caring superintelligent AI.
1:30:35
1:30:35
Self-play is a special case of agent competition that can incentivize diverse approaches