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The Self-Driving Startup Nobody Saw Coming | E2289

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This Week In Startups is made possible by: IM8 Health: IM8health.com/TWIST [http://im8health.com/twist] Squarespace: Squarespace.com/TWIST [https://squarespace.com/twist] Render - Render.com/TWIST [http://render.com/twist] Self-driving just stopped being a science problem and became an engineering challenge instead. That's the through-line of today's double-header with the CEOs of two of the most important AV companies in the world — Wayve's Alex Kendall and Waabi's Raquel Urtasun. Between them: ~$2B raised in the last six months, Uber as a partner, Nissan and Volvo as OEMs, and a shared bet that end-to-end AI plus world models beats Waymo's city-by-city map-and-pray approach. If you want to understand the state of the self-driving industry beyond recent Waymo announcements, this is the episode for you. Guest Links: Wayve: wayve.ai/ [http://wayve.ai/] Waabi: http://waabi.ai/ [http://waabi.ai/] Alex Kendall https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexgkendall/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexgkendall/] Raquel Uratsun: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raquel-urtasun-298400139/ [https://www.linkedin.com/in/raquel-urtasun-298400139/] Company Links: Wayve's GAIA-2 world model: https://wayve.ai/thinking/gaia-2/ [https://wayve.ai/thinking/gaia-2/] Wayve's 500 city roadshow: https://wayve.ai/thinking/ai-500-roadshow-500-cities/ [https://wayve.ai/thinking/ai-500-roadshow-500-cities/] Wavye's most recent funding round: https://wayve.ai/press/series-d/ [https://wayve.ai/press/series-d/] Waybe + Uber: https://wayve.ai/press/wayve-nissan-uber-robotaxi-collaboration/ [https://wayve.ai/press/wayve-nissan-uber-robotaxi-collaboration/] Waabi closed-loop simulator: https://waabi.ai/insights/waabi-world [https://waabi.ai/insights/waabi-world] Waabi + Volvo: https://waabi.ai/insights/waabi-and-volvo-autonomous-solutions-partner-to-jointly-develop-and-deploy-autonomous-transportation-solutions [https://waabi.ai/insights/waabi-and-volvo-autonomous-solutions-partner-to-jointly-develop-and-deploy-autonomous-transportation-solutions] Waabi + Uber: https://www.uberfreight.com/en-US/blog/uber-freight-and-waabi-introduce-industry-first-autonomous-truck-deployment-solution [https://www.uberfreight.com/en-US/blog/uber-freight-and-waabi-introduce-industry-first-autonomous-truck-deployment-solution] Timestamps: 0:00 Alex Kendall (Wayve) joins the show 1:19 The contrarian bet on end-to-end AI and world models in 2017 3:05 What is a world model? GAIA-2 and GAIA-3 explained 7:34 Sensor agnosticism: camera, radar, LiDAR and minimum bar for safety 9:56 $1.5B raised — have we cracked self-driving? 10:09 Render: Find out why 5 million developers are already using the all-in-one cloud platform, Render. Go to https://render.com/twist and apply for the Render Startup Program to get $500-$100,000 in free credits, depending on your stage and backers. 20:38 Squarespace: Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at https://www.Squarespace.com/TWIST 25:03 How consumers will actually pay: bundle, subscription, or free trial 30:15 IM8 Health: Start feeling like your best self every day. Go to https://IM8health.com/twist and use the code TWiST to get a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, and 10% off your order. 35:59 Raquel Urtasun (Waabi) joins the show 36:25 World models as controllable simulators for physical AI 43:34 One AI brain across trucks, robotaxis, and beyond 47:35 What changed in AI to make 2026 the deployment year 52:28 Why Waabi raised $1B when they're capital-efficient 58:52 Where Waabi is today: Volvo VNL Autonomous, Dallas-Houston, Uber Freight 1:00:50 Per-mile pricing and the Driver-as-a-Service model 1:07:20 Has Uber tried to buy Waabi? "Not for sale" Subscribe to the TWiST500 newsletter: https://ticker.thisweekinstartups.com [https://ticker.thisweekinstartups.com] Check out the TWIST500: https://www.twist500.com [https://www.twist500.com] Subscribe to This Week in Startups on Apple: https://rb.gy/v19fcp [https://rb.gy/v19fcp] Follow Lon: X: https://x.com/lons [https://x.com/lons] Follow Alex: X: https://x.com/alex [https://x.com/alex] LinkedIn: ⁠https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwilhelm [https://www.linkedin.com/in/alexwilhelm/] Follow Jason: X: https://twitter.com/Jason [https://twitter.com/Jason] LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis [https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasoncalacanis] Check out all our partner offers: https://partners.launch.co/ [https://partners.launch.co/] Great TWIST interviews: Will Guidara, [https://youtu.be/pvJa2pzuXWQ] Eoghan McCabe [https://youtu.be/9dHN4YFkgv4], Steve Huffman [https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/reddit-ceo-steve-huffman-on-mod-revolt-building-a/id315114957?i=1000617333424], Brian Chesky [https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/airbnb-ceo-brian-chesky-on-early-rejection-customer/id315114957?i=1000611761112], Bob Moesta, [https://youtu.be/y2UMzSqX94Q] Aaron Levie [https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/box-ceo-aaron-levie-breaks-down-box-ai-and-generative/id315114957?i=1000612384545], Sophia Amoruso [https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/sophia-amoruso-on-branding-raising-a-fund-portfolio/id315114957?i=1000601352978], Reid Hoffman [https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/reid-hoffman-on-ais-crescendo-moment-regulation-and/id315114957?i=1000612548498], Frank Slootman [https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/snowflake-ceo-frank-slootman-on-moving-the-needle-win/id315114957?i=1000602560622], Billy McFarland [https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/billy-mcfarland-on-fyre-fest-fraud-failure-hacking/id315114957?i=1000610922577] Check out Jason's suite of newsletters: https://substack.com/@calacanis [https://substack.com/@calacanis] Follow TWiST: Twitter: https://twitter.com/TWiStartups [https://twitter.com/TWiStartups] YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin [https://www.youtube.com/thisweekin] Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thisweekinstartups [https://www.instagram.com/thisweekinstartups] TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@thisweekinstartups [https://www.tiktok.com/@thisweekinstartups] Substack: https://twistartups.substack.com [https://twistartups.substack.com]

Highlights

This episode features a deep dive into the evolving landscape of autonomous vehicle technology through conversations with Alex Kendall of Wayve and Raquel Urtasun of Waabi—two visionary leaders redefining how self-driving systems are built and deployed.
00:00
Waabi is not for sale
01:21
The industry is now supporting Wayve's contrarian approach to self-driving AI
03:05
A world model can understand the world's state, is a powerful representation learning method, and can act as a simulator
07:34
There's no strict minimum ingestion level for sensors, and the approach supports various sensor combinations
10:00
Self-driving has not been cracked yet
12:54
Wayve has passed the scientific risk for self-driving and demonstrated global scalability with hands-off driving
23:04
A low-cost monthly subscription for eyes-off driving could transform the market
27:45
Wayve's stack can work with various robotics applications like sidewalk delivery, trucking, etc., with a small amount of data input into the foundation model
32:39
Wayve will sell cars with Nissan next year
35:59
Waabi uses world models—learned, physics-aware simulations—to power self-driving instead of traditional perception stacks
39:36
World models cut time to market, increase system safety, and reduce costs
46:59
Late-2025 AI model releases triggered transformative shifts in coding and self-driving capabilities
47:35
For trucking, driver shortage and safety issues make self-driving adoption a no-brainer
55:38
Waabi focuses on building foundational AI technology to drive in generalized environments, not just hub-to-hub corridors
58:52
Waabi’s commercial self-driving truck fleet is operational with top logistics partners and scaling via Volvo OEM integration
1:03:46
Uber robotaxi deal involves over 25,000 vehicles with Waabi as the technology provider
1:07:22
The traditional progression from L0 to L4 may not be the fastest or even a viable path

Chapters

Alex Kendall (Wayve) joins the show
00:00
The contrarian bet on end-to-end AI and world models in 2017
01:19
What is a world model? GAIA-2 and GAIA-3 explained
03:05
Sensor agnosticism: camera, radar, LiDAR and minimum bar for safety
07:34
$1.5B raised — have we cracked self-driving?
09:56
Render: Find out why 5 million developers are already using the all-in-one cloud platform, Render. Go to https://render.com/twist and apply for the Render Startup Program to get $500-$100,000 in free credits, depending on your stage and backers.
10:09
Squarespace: Use offer code TWIST to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain at https://www.Squarespace.com/TWIST
20:38
How consumers will actually pay: bundle, subscription, or free trial
25:03
IM8 Health: Start feeling like your best self every day. Go to https://IM8health.com/twist and use the code TWiST to get a free welcome kit, five free travel sachets, and 10% off your order.
30:15
Raquel Urtasun (Waabi) joins the show
35:59
World models as controllable simulators for physical AI
36:25
One AI brain across trucks, robotaxis, and beyond
43:34
What changed in AI to make 2026 the deployment year
47:35
Why Waabi raised $1B when they're capital-efficient
52:28
Where Waabi is today: Volvo VNL Autonomous, Dallas-Houston, Uber Freight
58:52
Per-mile pricing and the Driver-as-a-Service model
1:00:50
Has Uber tried to buy Waabi? "Not for sale"
1:07:20

Transcript

Alex Wilhelm: We pioneered end-to-end learning when it was widely dismissed. Alex Kendall: Self-driving in a way that economically scales the world is not solved. Raquel Urtasun: Our partnership is not up to $25,000, it is over $25,000, or, in other word...