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The history of servers, the cloud, and what’s next – with Oxide

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The history of servers, the cloud, and what’s next – with Oxide

The Pragmatic Engineer

2025/12/17
The Pragmatic Engineer

The Pragmatic Engineer

2025/12/17
OverviewShownoteHighlightsTranscriptChaptersPins

Shownote

Brought to You By: •⁠ Statsig [http://statsig.com/pragmatic] ⁠ — ⁠ The unified platform for flags, analytics, experiments, and more. •⁠ Linear [https://linear.app/pragmatic?utm_source=gergely&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=pragmatic-engineer] ⁠ — ⁠ The system for modern product development. — How have servers and the cloud evolved in the last 30 years, and what might be next? Bryan Cantrill was a distinguished engineer at Sun Microsystems during both the Dotcom Boom and the Dotcom Bust. Today, he is the co-founder and CTO of Oxide Computer, where he works on modern server infrastructure. In this episode of The Pragmatic Engineer, Bryan joins me to break down how modern computing infrastructure evolved. We discuss why the Dotcom Bust produced deeper innovation than the Boom, how constraints shape better systems, and what the rise of the cloud changed and did not change about building reliable infrastructure. Our conversation covers early web infrastructure at Sun, the emergence of AWS, Kubernetes and cloud neutrality, and the tradeoffs between renting cloud space and building your own. We also touch on the complexity of server-side software updates, experimenting with AI, the limits of large language models, and how engineering organizations scale without losing their values. If you want a systems-level perspective on computing that connects past cycles to today’s engineering decisions, this episode offers a rare long-range view. — Timestamps (00:00) Intro (01:26) Computer science in the 1990s (03:01) Sun and Cisco’s web dominance (05:41) The Dotcom Boom (10:26) From Boom to Bust  (15:32) The innovations of the Bust (17:50) The open source shift (22:00) Oracle moves into Sun’s orbit (24:54) AWS dominance (2010–2014) (28:15) How Kubernetes and cloud neutrality (30:58) Custom infrastructure  (36:10) Renting the cloud vs. buying hardware (45:28) Designing a computer from first principles  (50:02) Why everyone is paid the same salary at Oxide (54:14) Oxide’s software stack  (58:33) The evolution of software updates (1:02:55) How Oxide uses AI  (1:06:05) The limitations of LLMs (1:11:44) AI use and experimentation at Oxide  (1:17:45) Oxide’s diverse teams (1:22:44) Remote work at Oxide (1:24:11) Scaling company values (1:27:36) AI’s impact on the future of engineering  (1:31:04) Bryan’s advice for junior engineers (1:34:01) Book recommendations — The Pragmatic Engineer deepdives relevant for this episode: • Startups on hard mode: Oxide. Part 1: Hardware [https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/oxide] • Startups on hard mode: Oxide, Part 2: Software & Culture [https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/oxide-part-2] • Three cloud providers, three outages: three different responses [https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/three-cloud-providers-three-outages] • Inside Uber’s move to the Cloud [https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/uber-move-to-cloud] • Inside Agoda’s private Cloud [https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/inside-agodas-private-cloud] — Production and marketing by ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://penname.co/]https://penname.co/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ [https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/p/engineers-leading-projects]. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@pragmaticengineer.com. Get full access to The Pragmatic Engineer at newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/subscribe [https://newsletter.pragmaticengineer.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=CTA_4]

Highlights

Bryan Cantrill, a veteran of Sun Microsystems and co-founder of Oxide Computer, offers a deep dive into the evolution of computing infrastructure, drawing from decades of experience at the forefront of systems engineering. From the dot-com era to the rise of cloud platforms and modern AI tools, he reflects on how technological progress is shaped not just by innovation, but by economic cycles, constraints, and cultural choices within engineering organizations.
01:26
Java took off quickly after its release in 1995
04:15
Java and Solaris were foundational technologies during the dot-com build-out.
05:44
Good economic times make it hard to summon the desperation needed for innovation.
12:52
Better technical work emerged from limited resources during the bust.
17:57
By 2004–2005, x86 became the leading-edge microprocessor.
22:08
My talk about Oracle was suppressed due to fear of offending them.
24:59
Public cloud margins were good, and AWS S3 was suspected to be underwriting a war on big-box retail
30:32
Encouraging cloud neutrality benefits GCP by increasing its strategic importance.
33:33
Existing server products from Supermicro, Dell, and HP were not suitable for large-scale operations
40:53
Blind-mating networking eliminates cabling errors and enables zero-touch rack integration
48:05
Oxide recruits an extraordinary EE team from GE Medical to build custom systems without reference designs.
50:04
The uniform salary convinced candidates Oxide takes its values seriously
56:20
Shipping reliable, customer-applied updates for secure, air-gapped environments is a major engineering challenge
1:00:59
The first automatic update succeeded on the dog-food rack.
1:05:29
LLMs can't solve deeply technical or novel engineering problems
1:10:46
LLMs lack goals and are tools; true AI requires purposeful direction.
1:11:45
Engineers at Oxide are responsible for their work; LLMs assist but aren't blamed for bugs.
1:20:08
QA is valued equally to engineering, attracting top professionals who previously faced lower status in companies like Microsoft.
1:22:47
Much of server work can be done remotely using EDA tools, but bring-up requires being at the manufacturer.
1:26:38
We have lightning in a bottle with our team chemistry and need to protect it.
1:29:59
It's scarier to build something useful than to follow the traditional path, but that's where real opportunity lies.
1:36:23
Steve Jobs' failures at NeXT were essential for Apple's resurrection

Chapters

Intro
00:00
Computer science in the 1990s
01:26
Sun and Cisco’s web dominance
03:01
The Dotcom Boom
05:41
From Boom to Bust
10:26
The innovations of the Bust
15:32
The open source shift
17:50
Oracle moves into Sun’s orbit
22:00
AWS dominance (2010–2014)
24:54
How Kubernetes and cloud neutrality
28:15
Custom infrastructure
30:58
Renting the cloud vs. buying hardware
36:10
Designing a computer from first principles
45:28
Why everyone is paid the same salary at Oxide
50:02
Oxide’s software stack
54:14
The evolution of software updates
58:33
How Oxide uses AI
1:02:55
The limitations of LLMs
1:06:05
AI use and experimentation at Oxide
1:11:44
Oxide’s diverse teams
1:17:45
Remote work at Oxide
1:22:44
Scaling company values
1:24:11
AI’s impact on the future of engineering
1:27:36
Bryan’s advice for junior engineers
1:31:04
Book recommendations
1:34:01

Transcript

Gergely Orosz: Can you tell us about the dot-com boom? Bryan Cantrill: We did much more technically interesting work in the bust than we did in the boom. There's a degree to which innovation requires some level of desperation, that good economic times are...